Indians Prospect Insider

Interesting.

Are the Indians sure he was actually playing baseball over there and not cricket? lol

I wonder how they even find a guy like this, and what makes them think he has any potential at all? Does .214 in Euros equal .270 in US statistics (Euro equals 1.26128 $)?

Hey, the Indian prospect news is a little slow.....

How is his googly?

Wow! I didn't even know we had a Czech Republic area scout!

Wicked...

The problem with this guy is that he is not very good...and until October (MLB European Academy) we did not have an European scout.

An European scout, that is a friend of mine, told me so:
"Tall and skinny, light bat, no fundamentals, terrible base runner. Throw from home plate to second base in 2.3 sec without any precision....". He told me that an MLB scout said: "Good body, can't play"

We gave him an huge signing bonus (the third highest for an European player after Alexander Smit) without having a single scout in Europe.
He's a good body and you know "You can't teach a body"....maybe the FO just wanted to have an European signing just for the sake of it...with that kind of money I guess that we could have signed a better player or better we could have signed a decent scout.
We'll see.

It doesn't make much sense for the Tribe to have a scout dedicated to only Europe. Not enough talent coming out over there like Asia or latin america.

And you can teach a body actually. And you can teach precision on throws to 2B as well.

Could be a dud signign though. Don't know enough about him. But from what you're 'friend' says, doesn't look that bad actually. Sounds pretty athletic and could show something down the line....but definitely nothing to get excited about.

The same way the Pirates found the two pitchers from India?



I guess not.. But still.... does make you wonder.

This is just, plain stupid. If it isn't stupid, it sounds stupid. Bad PR is sometimes better than no PR but this is actually detrimental PR which is worse than bad PR. It makes the Indians look stupid and that is never a good thing.

Signing a bad guy from a place where baseball is just starting in an area (Europe) that I don't think has produced a single major leaguer (unless you want to talk about kids who grew up in the US, like Blyleven). Heck, let's just go to the state or federal jails (please, no Barry Bonds jokes) and find out who is being released soon. I am SURE there are better baseball players than this kid. I know, I haven't seen him play, but my Czech is a little rusty so the odds of that are remote.

How big was the bonus? "Huge" sounds like in the hundreds of thousands.

Not sure how this is move makes the Tribe look stupid at all.

European countries have produced some ML talent in the past. Though it's been a while (other than players born there and grew up here). But that doesn't mean you should not look for talen there. It was considered stupid I'm sure to look for a basketball player in Argentina where all they care about is soccer.......has worked out pretty well for the Spurs with Ginaboli and Oberto.

Was also a crazy idea to bring in a Japanese player not too long ago (even though others had been in the MLs).

Notice the Tribe isn't even bringing this kid to the US yet, he's gonna play over in Europe still. And this wasn't a PR move at all...the article was from January and the only reason you're even hearing about it because Tony posted it on this site.

The Tribe isn't the only team diving into the European player pool. Boston signed Jennell Hudson last year out of Germany. He played on their Junior Team. Pitched 10 games for Boston's rookie ball team last year. Doesn't appear to be anything special, but you have to start somewhere.

And as the one poster mentioned, Alexander Smit is playing in the Cincy organization and had a very solid year at high-A ball last year. Getting a bit old (was 22 there) but if he continutes to move up it's not so bad. Was signed by the Twins out of the Netherlands.

Oh, Jeezus, settle down. Getting excited (either direction) about this move is 'stupid, plain stupid.' This is incredibly small, as is the amount of $$ we are talking about here. I swear, Dennis, you just love to bitch and moan....

its damn near impossible to say if the kid is any good, no one here has a real scouting report no one has seen him. He could be anything at all in terms of talent

I cannot decide which Shakespearean play is more apropos, Much Ado about Nothing or MacBeth? Tempest in a teapot, anyone?

The guy is a very raw prospect, won't be in the US until 2010. It's a long shot.
The problem is that we gave the third highest bonus (for Europen standard) to a player that has not been scouted by the organization at all.
If we wanted an European guy for, let's say, marketing reason there were much better prospect, this guy has a good body..stop. But also my wife has....
I can not say the amount of the bonus for privacy reason , but I guess that we could have used that money in a more clever way.
Bye

Privacy reasons? really now? Since when is money spent by a ML club a privacy issue?

I called it privacy but I do not know if it's the right word (as you probably noted English is not my mother tongue ), anyway I was told of the bonus by an European scout that works for another organization and considering that the terms of the contract were not disclosed I was asked not to say the amount.
Bye

In other words, Webba was told the signing bonus amount in confidence it be kept "off the record". Which is understandable. By the way, thanks Webba for passing the link along to me to post (he is who I got it from). Still amazes me we have Indians fans in Italy....native Italians nonetheless.....and now that have blogs! Awesome.

Given what our local expert is saying, I am thinking more of King Lear. You know, the story of the leader who only accepts unabashed praise and love for his every action and disinherits or banishes anyone who speaks honestly and frankly about his exploits.

If people choose not to rate this signing because they feel it is a minor signing and that is their only stance, so be it. However, I haven't read one response here that is positive to the signing, just ones on how suspect it is and, of course, the ones who say 'who cares, it's so minor that it doesn't matter'. Sorry, nothing is minor in this economy and if the signing was for 6 figures, it is most likely a waste of time and what a pretty good Latin prospect would have cost you. Plus, there is no evidence the kid is even good in his own element, even given how backward the level of play probably is.

Just doesn't make sense. Even if it was $10,000 that would buy a lot of baseballs, a decent college senior signing or even a lower level Latin signing or two. All much better investments, in my opinion. However, it is probably over $100,000 which makes it just plain stupid.

And you haven't read one thing that has stated the amount of the signing either, just your own speculations.

Can't give you a real guess as to how much it is.....but according to our 'source' it's definitely less than $800,000, as that was Alexander Smit's bonus from the Twins and is still the largest ever to a European player. And since he's saying there'a nother that was higher (which I can't find), it's likely a lot less than that.

And again, you can't say this is a stupid signing til the kid actually plays some more. It's not more 'stupid' than signing a 16 or 17 year old kid out of a latin american country. In fact, could argue it's a safer bet as the kid most likely hasn't fudged his birth certificate like many latin american kids do (see that National prospect for example). Obviously it seems safer to take a kid from a latin american country since there's history there.....but most of those signing don't amount to anything.....just like this one may not.....doesn't make the signing 'stupid' though. You have to take some shots, especially as a low budget team like Cleveland.

And the Indians aren't the only team looking in the Czech Republic for players either. Our Ohio buddies, the Reds, currently employ scouts there (at least according to their media guide).

Sounds like Midsummer's Night Dream on acid!

As I recall the storyline, Midsummers Night Dream WAS like an acid trip.

Hermie,

There are hundreds of draft-eligible D-I players, probaby 100 or so who have over .300 BAs or ERAs under 4 on their college teams who never even see a professional contract. If this kid got a bonus of over $50,000 it is clearly a joke. Heck, any money spent on him is a joke. My guess is that you are looking at $100,000 to $150,000. C'mon, the guy has no more chance than any low level college senior or any other 18 year old all-district HS player without a D-I offer, neither of which group ever plays professional baseball. The bottom line is that there are a number of baseball hotbeds: the US, Latin America and the Far East. Europe is not one of those places. If you can't find a better place to spend six figures as a small market team in a depressed economy then you are not very smartly run.

C'mon, this screams stupidity. It is not THAT big of a deal in terms of money. But it screams stupidity when there were baseball hotbeds where you could have gotten guys who actually had a chance to play in the big leagues for that money.

Hey, it looked bad when I saw the title but when I read what our local expert on this matter had to say, it appears way stupid.

The difference is those 100 or so draft eligible D-1 players aren't 17. They have little chance to physically grow usually, unlike this 17 year old we signed.


This guy has as good a chance to play in the MLs as nearly any 16-17 year old you sign out of Latin America, period. Tribe gives out tons of these and signs players all the time that realistically have almost no chance of ever playing in the MLs.....but you have to do this or you'll never sign a real prospect.


This is a pointless argument really. No one has any real facts on the kid, only speculation stemming from what others have said about him. However, the kid we signed was 17 and playing in the top league in his country already. Yeah, the Czech Republic is no DR or Venezuela, but that does NOT mean you automatically can dismiss this signing. Saying so is plain ignorant and down right 'stupid' even, period.

ha, only if you're buying the drinks

I got to agree with hermie, and i think its a first for the two of us to ever agree, but hes just some 17 year old kid. the wash out rate for the Latin America bonus babies is huge. Plus there is a decent chance this guys living conditions were better than many of those players and doesn't have the conditioning issues the Latin players have about having to add weight and muscle. The took a risk on a kid and I think its a good idea. Yes we dont have many scouts out there are many people who do scouting with out any affiliation and get bonuses for finding guys. At the end of the day they liked the kid other teams had interest and they signed him they took a risk, its less of a risk than the A's took with Micheal Inoa

Heck, I will buy a round for Tony, Hermie, Petes999 and a few others. If Art and Daz flew into town, it would be a requirement.

We have to get this group together at a game or to catch some games on the TV.

Hold on a second. No one dismissed the signing. They can sign 100 of these guys, too. The point is that you don't give out the 3rd highest bonus in European history to a guy like this. Could he be a diamond in the rough? Sure. But the point is that the money is better spent elsewhere if it is 6 figures plus like it probably is. Hey, if you sign him for $25,000 we aren't having this long of a discussion. It would have been strange but it could easily have been written off to getting your foot in the door in an area (what the heck for is another question).

However, at what is probably 100 grand plus, for a guy who probably isn't even close to the top European prospect and, if he is, it is STILL Europe, makes no sense.

I'll tell you what. Fifteen years ago if an English soccer club had signed the a good soccer player in Oklahoma to a big bonus it would have been met with the same
scoffing as is being presented here because, well, there were better hotbeds of soccer everywhere than in Oklahoma.

So, now all we have to do is wait for the bonus amount. Considering Elvis Araujo, one of our top Latin prospects, cost us $100,000, one would hope this kid's bonus is in the 25 K range.

Point is, until you see him play, you can NOT say he's not worth the money. It's ignorant to keep saying that.


In 1994, Chan Ho Park signed (at the time) and insane 6 year deal with a $1.2M signing bonus....coming out of Korea! Sometimes even not being a 'hotbed' can still land you a solid player. Where this kid is from should have NO barring on how one feels about the signing.

Are you aware that he won't even be able to play full-time for 3 more years? At least that is what I have read.

Sure, against all odds a Czech kid who is not even playing in the highest level of the rudimentary baseball association in a non-baseball country might turn out to be a good prospect. On the surface, however, it is a ridiculous waste of money.

Regarding seeing him play, that doesn't matter. None (or a very minor few) of us are scouts. Seeing a guy play doesn't make us any more knowledgeable than looking at stats and circumstances. Looking at it from that POV, this is clearly a case of the emperor not wearing a stitch.

yes, which is exactly why it's pointless to call this a stupid move. Tribe obviously has seen something they liked in this kid and feel he can contribute down the line.

You're right, none of us are scouts....so I trust that the scouts and people who HAVE seen him play, gave him a signign bonus for a good reason.

good grief

What is the bonus? If it is $10,000 then it is a who cares move. Can't even get a college junior or a HS player...or a decent Latin prospect, for that amount so if you want to use it as an 'in' to that part of the world then so be it.

Now, if it is what has been speculated, a 6 figure bonus, then this is a stupid move. Guy who won't be here for A MINIMUM OF 3 years, from a country without any baseball infrastructure. Could have gotten a decent college player or HS player and certainly a decent Latin prospect for that amount.

So, as always, it comes down to the money. In all that I have read, except for here, the bonus has not been mentioned.

So, I guess the question is what is the bonus?

The Indians aren't out very much money. They paid him in U.S. Dollars. Wait till this kid see the bonus check minus the taxes.... He'll owe us money. I suspect this kid will be a triva question some day!!!

Once again, where are you getting a 'MINIMUM of 3 years' from? Here's what's been said:

To continue his development while finishing high school Červenka and the Indians have agreed upon a specific playing plan for the next two seasons. Červenka will continue to compete for his club team, KOTLARKA, during the 2009 season. He will travel to Goodyear for extended spring training during his school holidays and spend the 2009 and 2010 summers at the MLB Academy in Australia (Australian Summer League). He will maintain this plan until his high school commitment has been completed (high school in the Czech Republic ends at age 19).

So he'll be in the States THIS YEAR. Not a minimum of 3 years like you keep saying. Plus 2011 is only 2 years away when he'll be here. You're overexagerating everything again.


And you're right, we 'could' have gotten a decent lation prospect for $100,000....and we MAY have gotten an even better one in this kid. good lord, let the kid at least finish high school before you bash him. And again, at least with this kid, you know he's the age he says unlike most latin players signed.

And also don't understand your obsession with him not coming right to the states. NO 16 year old latin players comes right to the states. They play in the Domincan leagues til they're 18 and sometimes 19. Same as this kid except he's going to Australia instead. Take a chill pill dude and let things play out.

First, the fact that he passes through (instructional league is not very long) doesn't mean he is here.
Second, he won't even get to the states for good until he is almost Rule 5 eligible.
Third, I love how people use the word bash when you question a signing. No bashing involved, really.
Fourth, how many Europeans have made it to the majors recently? How many Czech citizens have ever made it?
Fifth, you comment about Latin kids and their ages is ridiculous. You have no idea if this kid's age is accurate and you have no idea if any of the kids the Indians sign are overage. I think there has been like one report out of all the Latin kids the Indians have signed in my memory where an age was questioned. You generalize to make a point and that generalization makes you look silly.
Sixth, you are wrong. According to Lino Diaz who I interviewed a couple of years ago, Latin kids come to the US WHEN THEY ARE ACCLIMATED TO PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL. It is not an age thing.

Hermie, in the post above you have so many inaccuracies and generalizations that it is tough to take your argument seriously. It sounds more like grasping at straws trying to find any way to support what is probably a waste of over $100,000 of a small market team's money in a bad economy when they don't even have a scout covering the area of the world, at least from the post above.


Using the 'nobody knows about him' excuse is just that. While he may turn out great what are the odds compared to signing a Latin kid? Latin kids love baseball, it is a huge thing in the DR, Venezuela and, to a lesser extent, other Latin countries. These kids are hungry (literally), motivated and focused. Saying that, a priori, spending $100,000 on a Latin kid in any way could even possibly, in the remotest sense be considered the same investment or, maybe, even a worse investment than spending that money on a Czech kid is ridiculous. You have nothing to back up what you are saying except the absence of hard data on this kid. Every other bit of peripheral data says that this was a stupid move...and that is if it is only $100,000. What if it is $200,000?

Again, what was the bonus?

Exactly what inaccuracy was in my post? The kid WILL be in the US this year. He WILL be here in less than 3 years....

Not seeing the inaccuracies.....

And when does this aclimation to professional baseball occur? Alomst NEVER before the kid is 18, and plenty of times when he is 19.....which is the exact same as any US or Canadien HS kid really.


Ok, maybe not 'bash'.....do you prefer the term 'ripping the signing' then? Cause that's all you've been doing.


And you're making even more generalizations than me. You're assuming this kid must be less of a talent than a latin kid because he's not from a country that produces baseball players regularly. You're assuming he doesn't have the same drive as a latin kid either.


I never have said I have anything to back up what I'm saying. But you have NOTHING to back up what you're saying. The Tribe could have given this kid $500K. It doesn't matter. It could still be a great signing. This signing is no more of a risk than signing any other undrafted free agent.

Fact is, you have absolutely NOTHING to bash this signing, other than your feelings that the Tribe shouldn't be looking at European prospects. Why? Do you honestly think there is no talent over there?


And as far as the age thing goes. You're right, I can't prove it.....but European birth certificates are a lot harder to forge than ones in second rate countries like Venezuela and the Dominican Republic. Almost every year you hear about a latin player who lied about his age. Thing is, most of the time it's a low prospect so no one cares. Bartolo Colon lied about his age with the tribe, and I'm sure there were others.


And I totally disagree about the small market thing. The Tribe NEEDS to take risks like this since they are a small market team. They can't sit around doing nothing hoping that a few draft picks make it for them. They have to look for new avenues to find talent and try and beat the big market teams to these players. If that means overspending on unproven prospects then so be it. We can't really out spend the big boys in ML free agency, so you have to look to the ametour market for the talent.

Personally, I'm not too worried about what the Indians paid for Cervenka. Need to see how he does over the next 2-3 years to see if it was really worth it.

What I am more perplexed by is this Australian Summer League he will supposedly be playing in, a league I have never heard of until it was mentioned in the press release with his signing. I have not asked anyone about the league yet, but in my searches in Yahoo and Google, and also searching BA, I have come up empty. I may be intrigued to write a story on the league to sort of get to know it a little more.

Maybe January 24th is the Czech equivalent of our April Fool's Day...

Tony,

When I interviewed the father of one of the two Aussies they signed last year he told me about this league and Mirabelli mentioned it to me, too. Mirabelli also told me that this is where young Pacific Rim signees (and obviously now European signees) go to play a full summer. It is similar to the DSL but only closer to home for these kids. One of those two Aussies played there last summer.

BTW, despite what has been said it is all one budget. Dollars should be allocated to the best prospects.

Again, what is the bonus? It DOES matter.

Tony,

I sent you an e-mail on this last year. The acronym of the league is MLBAAP. For everyone here is a link to a page.

http://www.baseball.com.au/?MenuID=Nati ... 51%2F17671

Googling will allow you to find more.

Some news form the European youth Championship.

http://competition.baseballeurope.com/2 ... hedule.php

Cervenka's team played three games. In the first he was catching, in the second he played LF and in the 3rd was on the bench.
The scouts (European MLB scouts) said the he has gotten worse...if possible.
He is taller (now he is 1.95 meters) and can't play the position at all.
When he is not catching he is batting 8th or 9th because of his light bat.....great news eh.
Looks like we just have thrown away a quite big (for European standards) signing bonus here.

Bye from Italy.